Cliff's Gone (to Phillies)

[Sideshow Bob]

Yankees just upped their offer to 7 years, so the Rangers are out of the mix. They were unlikely to even go to 6 years, so now they are surely done.

I'm fine with it, so long as we end up with OL' GREINKE.

[Sideshow Bob]

sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5902103

The New York Yankees on Thursday have gone to a seventh year on their offer to Cliff Lee, sources told ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney and ESPNNewYork.com's Andrew Marchand.

Sources told ESPNNewYork.com and ESPN.com that the original offer to Lee was for six years and $140 million. Another source briefed on the talks told ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick that the new offer is for less than the average ($23.3 million per year) of the original six-year offer.

SI.com first reported that the Yankees added a seventh year to their offer.

Texas Rangers president Nolan Ryan was told of the Yankees' going to seven years on ESPN's "Mike and Mike in the Morning" Thursday morning.

"We have to be concerned about that because seven years for any contract is really stretching it out," he said. "And I don't know how you predict how anyone is performing six or seven years from now."

Ryan didn't say that seven years exceeded the Rangers' limit, but he did say: "Everything has a ceiling that they have to understand what it is. And it doesn't make economic sense after a certain threshold."

Ryan was asked to guage his team's chances in light of the latest development.

"Well you know if the reports that are coming out are true, obviously that makes it more challenging for us," he said. "We're scheduled to meet with them [Lee's representatives] again, hopefully today."

Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said at the winter meetings in Florida Wednesday that the team had made a formal offer to Lee but wouldn't reveal details of the Yankees' plans on Thursday.

"We will do what makes sense for us," Cashman said, adding that he had spoken to Yankees managing partner Hal Steinbrenner Wednesday night. Cashman said he was leaving the winter meetings and had no plans to make a detour to Arkansas to visit Lee and his agent Darek Braunecker. He said if necesscary he is more than willing to meet with Lee again.


To get some perspective on what Lee stands to earn, the $140 million, six-year offer falls between the contracts of the New York Mets' Johan Santana (6 years, $137.5 million) and the Yankees' CC Sabathia (7 years, $161 million).

The Yankees may eventually be willing to go to $25 million per season for Lee, according to a baseball official. With the Red Sox reportedly coming to terms with free-agent outfielder Carl Crawford, Lee and his agent, Darek Braunecker, have even more leverage to get to $25 million per season and possibly seven years. The Yankees had been hesitant to offer Lee seven years.

Lee remains the Yankees' No. 1 target. On Wednesday, Yankees manager Joe Girardi called him the "complete package."

"Cliff Lee has been the prize of this offseason and we will continue to pursue him," Girardi said.

Braunecker said Wednesday that one club is no longer involved in the Lee sweepstakes. He wouldn't say which team had been eliminated. However, it's not the Rangers, who met with Braunecker for about 30 minutes Wednesday.

Ryan told ESPNDallas.com on Wednesday night that the Rangers have asked Braunecker to let them know what it will take to sign Lee. Ryan had expected it to take six years to sign him and the club was considering doing that. He had added that he thinks he could hear something from Lee's camp in the next 48 hours.

"I think if they come back with a proposal of what it's going to take for him to come over, we're going to have to sit down and look at it and talk about it," Ryan had said. "I think that's where we are, waiting to hear back from them.

"We've asked them to give us a number for Cliff Lee to come to the Rangers, what it will take."

The Los Angeles Angels have also reached out to representatives for the free-agent left-hander, a source told Crasnick.

Earlier Wednesday, Braunecker said his group knew more than it did on Tuesday in terms of negotiations involving Lee.

"We've eliminated a club and have zeroed in on a few things," Braunecker said.

Information from ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney, ESPN.com's Jayson Stark and Jerry Crasnick, ESPNNewYork.com's Andrew Marchand and ESPNDallas.com's Richard Durrett was used in this report.

[mexicanjunior]

Rangers are DONE...

[Terd Ferguson]

don't be too quick...let this play out.

By the way, even if he goes it does not mean we're done. Remember, some team other than the Rangers won the World Series last year. Having Cliff Lee doesn't mean you automatically win, it just ups your chances.

[Terd Ferguson]

by the way, the title of this thread is bush league...makes you look like a a*hole.
Cliff MAY be gone, but don't post stuff like makes things look "official" until they are.

[matt51180]

I read in my latest Newberg Report that his agent leaft the winter meetings early to go back and talk to Lee about the Yankee deal and see if it makes him want to leave Texas. Apparently he actually does love it here, but that extra 2 years and 48 million dollars might make him go to NY.

[Jesse Jackson]

The Fat Lady might be warning up......

[Sideshow Bob]

Dec 9, 2010 11:25:58 GMT -6 Terd Ferguson said:

by the way, the title of this thread is bush league...makes you look like a a*hole.
Cliff MAY be gone, but don't post stuff like makes things look "official" until they are.

i should have put (probably) at the end of the title

good point

[Terd Ferguson]

Dec 9, 2010 12:47:04 GMT -6 matt51180 said:

I read in my latest Newberg Report that his agent leaft the winter meetings early to go back and talk to Lee about the Yankee deal and see if it makes him want to leave Texas. Apparently he actually does love it here, but that extra 2 years and 48 million dollars might make him go to NY.

It isn't 2 years though, it is one. Ryan has said they have come to the realization it was going to take 6 years and that they could do that.
However, the money may not be quite as good here.
What does it cost to live in NY? Much cheaper in Texas. What does it cost to fly his family around? Much cheaper in Texas. No state tax in Texas.
If he wants a NICE place in NY, he will spend a full year's salary. In Texas for $25M, he could own a GIGANTIC ranch with a HUGE mansion. For $25M, he could have a big ranch and land and a helicopter to take him to Arlington for game and the pilot to fly that helicopter.

I don't think we have to offer the same money. Cliff knows all these things.
The reasons we have a chance:

a) he knows all the things I just said
b) he can go back and forth to his home in Arkansas between starts if he wants. Nolan did that his last year in Texas
c) We have a younger team built to win and he knows that too

This isn't over yet. He may still choose NY because of CC Sabathia and the history of the Yankees, but it isn't a foregone conclusion.
The only thing stopping him from staying in Texas is us being competitive on money/years. We don't have to match them, we just need to be in the same neighborhood.

[Terd Ferguson]

Curious what you guys would rather see?

Cliff Lee gets 7 years and $145M from Texas

or

Texas lets Lee go and gets Pettite and Greinke. Pettite for 1 or 2 years at about $10M per and Greinke to a longer term deal (maybe 3 year extension)?

I'm prepared for Lee to walk. I am hoping he doesn't, but 6 years is pushing it for me...7 years at that kind of money? That could be very bad. He will be 40 by then. Anybody catch any of his bad starts? They were BAD. What happens when he loses a little of that control or movement? You want 2 or 3 years at $20M + of that?

IF he goes and IF we replace him with someone capable (Greinke OR Pettite would work in that capacity) I'll be fine. I don't want to financially handcuff the team.
However, I do think it will really make a statement if we can keep him. That psychological step may be more important that what Lee actually does here.

[Sideshow Bob]

Dec 9, 2010 15:55:06 GMT -6 Terd Ferguson said:

Curious what you guys would rather see?

Cliff Lee gets 7 years and $145M from Texas

or

Texas lets Lee go and gets Pettite and Greinke. Pettite for 1 or 2 years at about $10M per and Greinke to a longer term deal (maybe 3 year extension)?

I'm prepared for Lee to walk. I am hoping he doesn't, but 6 years is pushing it for me...7 years at that kind of money? That could be very bad. He will be 40 by then. Anybody catch any of his bad starts? They were BAD. What happens when he loses a little of that control or movement? You want 2 or 3 years at $20M + of that?

IF he goes and IF we replace him with someone capable (Greinke OR Pettite would work in that capacity) I'll be fine. I don't want to financially handcuff the team.
However, I do think it will really make a statement if we can keep him. That psychological step may be more important that what Lee actually does here.

i'd rather have greinke and pettite IF it also lets us get beltre or another big bat

[Jesse Jackson]

Norm interviewed Greenberg this morning and the best part of the interview to me was when Norm asked him if he was nervous and he said that he had no reason to be nervous after the year they've had. He said this is the fun part and no matter what they are not going to hurt the long time chances of this team. Worth a listen.

theticketpodcasts.blogspot.com/

[Terd Ferguson]

at least the guys on the team are doing their part to try and keep him around too:

rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/12/tommy-hunter-has-been-spending.html

Tommy Hunter has been spending time with Cliff Lee, 'trying to keep him here'
Posted at 1:46 PM on Fri., Dec. 10, 2010 | Permalink | Yahoo! Buzz
SportsDayDFW sports Bio | E-mail | News tips
Rangers starting pitcher Tommy Hunter doesn't possess the financial assets to compete with the New York Yankees or any other team that is interested in signing Cliff Lee.

But Hunter, who spoke with Lee Friday morning, has done his own part in trying to keep his teammate, and buddy, as a member of the Rangers.

"I'm trying to keep him here," Hunter said Friday after participating in an MCA/Rangers Fitness All-Stars event at Ellie Elementary School in Arlington. "I played for him so it would be nice to have Cliff Lee around. Not just for baseball, as a friend."

The two have remained close during the off-season.

In fact, they just recently returned from a deer hunting trip at Richards Ranch in Jacksboro.

"I've been with him for the last week and a half or so," Hunter said. "I actually killed a bigger deer than him. We went gun hunting and we had a good time."

Perhaps times like that will be the difference in keeping Lee near his Arkansas home and in a Rangers uniform.

During that time in the wilderness, a conversation about where Lee will play next season must have come up. But even if it did, Hunter wasn't budging on the extent of their discussions.

"We really don't talk about it much," he said. "That's his business. That's his deal. That's something if he wants to share it he'll share it. I'm not going to go ask him about it."

The 24-year-old right-hander declared that he would obviously love to be in Lee's situation because of the financial return that will come when the veteran lefty signs his new deal.

After Lee receives his new contract, one that could reach the $160 million range, Hunter said he hopes his friend takes him out to dinner.

When reminded that Lee's new contract could probably fetch a little more than dinner, Hunter upped his request to an expensive car.

"I like black Bentley, on black," he quipped.

During Hunter's time at the elementary school, he spoke to the students about the importance of exercise and eating right. He said that he looked up to professional athletes when he was younger and hopes his good example will have a positive effect on their lives.

Possibly the same effect Lee has had on Hunter's life.

"Anytime you talk about a guy like him you talk about a leader," Hunter said. "He's a great guy on and off the field. These kids kind of look up to us and we, as peers, look up to him. Me speaking by myself, but I'm sure I talk for a lot of other people. We look up to him.

"I hope he stays around. I hope all this works out and hopefully he can stay a Texas Ranger."




rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/12/rangers-cj-wilson-to-lee-ill-b.html

Rangers' C.J. Wilson to Lee: 'I'll be your sidekick, Cliff'
Posted at 4:12 PM on Fri., Dec. 10, 2010 | Permalink | Yahoo! Buzz
SportsDayDFW sports Bio | E-mail | News tips
C.J. Wilson knows where Cliff Lee wants to be and it's not with the Rangers or Yankees.

"I know Cliff to know well enough that he's deer-hunting right now. That's where he wants to be and that's where he wants his mind to be," Wilson told MLB .com. "His agent's dealing with all the negotiations. His agent has to be the happiest guy in the world right now. He gets to talk to Brian Cashman, gets to talk to Nolan Ryan. He's like, 'Six years? Seven years? Whattya got? Whattya got? These guys are giving me that thing, what are you giving me?'

"The way free agency works -- it's great for the game overall. It's a chance for a lot of fans to be activated. That's the one thing I never understood until recently, with Twitter. People were texting me all the time and saying, 'Please tell Cliff Lee to come back!' I mean, the guy is a grown man. He's 33, he's going to do what he wants to do."

Wilson was shocked when the Rangers acquired Lee from Seattle in July. He had thought the Yankees were a lock to get him.

"To have Cliff Lee as a fifth starter in a way, yeah, that's pretty good," Wilson said with a laugh. "I felt instantly, straight-up, my first thought was, 'World Series, here we go.' It turned out to be that way. Hopefully we can bring him back."

"He sort of legitimized our rotation," Wilson said.

Wilson said whether Rangers general manager Jon Daniels has not told him to reach out to Lee.

"The team doesn't really involve the players too much," Wilson said. "Although a couple years ago, when we tried to sign [Barry] Zito, they brought me to dinner with Zito, and they were like, 'Hey, you guys are from California, talk about surfing.' I was like, 'All right. Cool, man.'

"The funny thing is, Barry and I have actually become friends over the last couple of years because of that.

"I'm just going to leave Cliff alone to do his own thing, because I'm not offering him anything, other than friendship. 'I'll be your sidekick, Cliff.'"

[mexicanjunior]

Lee went back to the Phillies...Rangers pitching is screwed.

mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101213&content_id=16311236&vkey=news_tex&c_id=tex&partnerId=rss_tex

ARLINGTON -- The Rangers' pursuit of pitcher Cliff Lee took an unexpected twist on Monday when they were told that he is signing with the Phillies.

Rangers general manager Jon Daniels said the club was informed of the decision Monday night.

"Cliff called me," Daniels said. "He was very classy. He was very appreciative of the time he was here and how he was treated. He and his family enjoyed his time here. He also enjoyed his time in Philadelphia and liked some of the things that opportunity had to offer."

The Rangers and the Yankees have been considered the front-runners to sign Lee, but the Phillies have pushed hard since the Winter Meetings and won the pursuit.

Lee pitched for the Phillies for the final two months of the 2009 season and, as he did with the Rangers this past season, helped them reach the World Series.

The Phillies traded him to the Mariners last winter. The Rangers acquired him from the Mariners on July 9 and have been trying hard to re-sign him. But the Phillies' emergence has left the Rangers on the outside.

The Yankees had made a seven-year offer to Lee and the Rangers made a series of offers to Lee last Thursday in Arkansas. Neither was good enough.

[tecnocrat]

Wow. What a fucking knife to the back. The only saving grace is that he's going NL.